Witnesses Do - Why Pre-Tribulation

 

What Witnesses Do

Why Tribulation Discussion is Important

 

 

 

"My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;  3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

 

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.  5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." - James 1:2-5.

 

 

 

Most of you know that I struggle with patience.  And even though the Lord has tested it many times (and I’m still failing, but better at it), I can admit it is the one thing about my personality that will get me into trouble every . . . single . . . time.

 

I have often questioned whether I have the mentality to be a witness, or to do this over social media on the internet.  My mouth gets the better of me sometimes, but if the Lord is still testing me, he has not given up on me.

 

So now, let’s talk about what happened today.  Secondary to my patience was something else that came out of this and I wanted to share it with you.  Because many of you are undoubtedly dealing with the same thing but perhaps with different topics.

 

There are two things that are really convicting me to respond to.  One of them is, there seems to be a transplanting of white supremacy to the social media site “GAB”.  And while I respect the founder’s desire to give everyone a voice, I do believe that this “movement” if you want to call it that, is an organized “controlled opposition”.  I hate what they preach, I hate what they stand for, and I hate their message.  It is wrong on so many levels.

 

At the same time, it has also caused me to look at the way I talk about the Jews, which is probably the only demographic I have strong issues with.  I have to keep remembering that even though both Jesus and Paul, and practically all the prophets admonish the Jews’ religion, it is the MINDSET, not the people within that religion, that should be called into question.  It is the things they DO to others because of that religion, that Jesus exposed.  He also saved many of them OUT of it.

 

I will get back to that another time.  I bring it up because it was during one of these responses that I engaged with someone I will for now call a “friend”, we tangled over the whole “tribulation” issue: Pre, post, mid.  The whole exchange began with the posting of the Obamas and “black and white” people and somehow segued into who is going to heaven.

 

 

 

Where Deception Divides Truth

 

Whether blacks or whites or any color will be identified in heaven (I was of the understanding that it is a spiritual place, not a fleshly one) transitioned into the subject of the tribulation.

 

I had written about this extensively during the time of the “MichaelsGuardian” blog; because the role of the “beast” and his system fit so conveniently into the pre-tribulation teaching.  I had researched where that had started and why it had spread so through the fundamentalist churches like Southern Baptist, Weslyan and Pentacostal churches, among others.

 

Back in December of 2021, the last blog entry I posted was entitled “OMICRON: The Great Counterfeiter”.  It was to be the last blog posted on “MichaelsGuardian.blogspot.com” because Google shut it down permanently four days after it was posted.  If you click on any of it’s former links, you will reach a page that says “Blog has been removed.  Sorry, the blog at “michaelsguardian.blogspot.com” has been removed. The address is not available for new blogs”.

 

The blog had been shut down prior to that for about two weeks, in July of 2021.  The offending subject that time was an article titled “DIVOC: The Vacca-Doctrine”.  It too traversed the subject of COVID as a vehicle for overspreading abomination, the Jews, sorcery via pharmakeia and vaccines.  That one is also republished on another blog.

 

Because we are so close, the subjects of “Pre-Trib Rapture”, the “Counterfeit Christ” and any correlation between vaccines and the “overspreading of abomination” are going to be met with cyber attacks, flaming, deletion of one’s online work or worse.

 

Telling someone who has been brought up all their life in a church that extolls the hope of a pre-tribulation rapture that it is a false teaching is just asking for argument.  It’s not a hopeless ministry, but it will be met with frustration.

 

So when this opportunity to share presented itself, I was a little more prepared:   Not because I knew more, but because I had wrestled this beast many times in the past.  Our patience is tried for a reason.  So let me just get to it, and feel free to share these examples of scripture in your own discussions and ministries.

 

 

 

Jesus Warns for Good Reason

 

One of the first verses I present to people who assert that they believe a rapture comes before the tribulation is Matthew 24:29, and I tell them read that, then start at the beginning of that chapter and read the whole thing.  Or I’ll give them Mark 13:24 and tell them the same thing.  Those two verses is where Jesus definitively describes the son of man coming AFTER the Tribulation.

 

Well this one person and I went through all that.  If they are still not in agreement, I usually then send them to Matthew 24:30-31/Mark 13:26 and then 1 Thessalonians 4:16 to prove there is no “second visitation” to “gather” people.

 

We began to get a little heated and I went to bed.  I will call the poster “friend” and me “response”.  I didn’t get the idea to include this discussion as a topic until the next morning, when I awoke to this.

 

Friend: "Pre , mid, trib is mute.

God's elect will be spared from his wrath"

 

I think he was trying to say “moot” not “mute”; to which I responded:

 

Response:  "From his wrath, but not from the tribulation:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%203%3A4&version=KJV

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202%3A10&version=KJV

 

He responded back a few  minutes later:

 

Friend: "Trib is God's wrath where the angels opens the 7 seals of judgement.."

 

I don’t agree with that, because it doesn’t say that.  I posted with another scripture reference from 2 Thessalonians 2:

 

Response:  "No, the tribulation is the testing of the saints. And it is the first seven seals, which ironically are not opened until Revelation 6 (man). And the wicked are revealed through their works (see 2 Thess. 2:3-8) after he who withholds is taken out of the way. Revelation 2 mentions the church of Smyrna suffering tribulation. Paul tells the elect they will suffer tribulation as does Jesus. We all will suffer tribulation. The day of wrath is for the wicked who refuse to accept Christ."

 

This usually gets rebuffed by Pre-Trib adherents, but by this time you are firmly acquainted with their refusal to accept Jesus’ warning “after the Tribulation” and to parse it with church interpretations they have heard in some cases, all their life.  But I kept plugging away and didn’t give up on him.

 

Response:  "God opens the seals (Jesus on his throne, the Lamb). But he's not the one riding the horses causing the events. He releases the wicked to do it. There is a purpose behind this. There are still "saints" that have yet to recognize their purpose."

 

There was a break here.  I went to eat breakfast and to give time for “friend” to look up the verses I had sent.  He responded with the below, which I thought was an excellent point.  I had never seen this used in explanation and I felt blessed that this should come to me.  He said:

 

Friend: "for the purpose of conversation....

Haven't you read where when the judgments came down on Pharo that the Israelites never suffered the plagues."

 

Before I over-thought on this as I sometimes do, this came from the Spirit through me, I didn’t even have time to think about it.

 

Response:  "Yes, but they were still there. They were not taken up into heaven, were they? Foreshadowing. Is all through the Bible. Did they still suffer fear? Yes. They didn't know what was going to happen. Did they still go through the wilderness and still disobey after their faith was tested and some of them failed? Yes. This is what the Tribulation is for . . . the strengthening of the saints, the elect. Even Jesus faith was tested. Are we better than him?"

 

What I didn’t get to point out to him and didn’t think about it until later, was that the “plagues” are poured it in the last “sevens” . . . the seven vials are poured out on the “day of wrath”.  But it wasn’t important to explain that and God gave him what he wanted me to tell him.  I sent an addendum to reiterate why Jesus tells us “after the tribulation”:

 

Response:  “Jesus and Paul warns us of these things because we will suffer them. We are reminded that during these times we are not to lean unto our own understanding. It is to strengthen us, even though we won't be destroyed by it. Here:

 

Revelation 6:14-17 - "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

 

"And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree" - Isaiah 34:4-8.

 

Especially 8.  Day of wrath comes during the sixth seal and the sixth vial

 

Fifth Trumpet in Revelation 9:4

 

"And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

 

Those with the seal, the elect are still there.

 

Revelation 10: the seventh angel that sounds is the same in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Also the same as in Daniel 12:1.  The seventh seal, trumpet and vial happen at the same time.  Read those together, because the elect are saved up out of this as this wrath commences.

 

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

 

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." - 1 Peter 5:8-10

 

 

John 16:3 "...In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

 

Acts 14:22 "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."

 

Romans 5:3 "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"

 

Romans 8:35 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?"

 

2 Corinthians 1:4 "Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God."

 

1 Thessalonians 3:4 "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know."

 

After all that . . . after ALL that, my “friend” sends me this about an hour later:

 

Friend: "Well you can witness and suffer trib ....me I'm out of hear."

 

So . . . was he mad at me because I showed him in scripture something he didn’t want you to hear?  What did they say about those who appease “itching ears” in 2 Timothy 4:3?

 

I was going to leave it there.  I came back later to post this, because I remembered being through this myself.  My own church taught pre-trib rapture and congregations eat that up.  Remembering why Jesus said what he said, I posted a one, last-ditch attempt to get him to see why this is such an issue:

 

Response:  "It's in the scriptures. Why are you fighting the truth? My church taught the pre-trib doctrine too. You know how hard it was for me to break out of that? It's the same thing as the garden - "surely you will not die" said the serpent. The Pre-trib rapture idea was constructed specifically to deceive people that the FIRST appearance of a "savior" would be Christ. This is why Jesus warns us about it in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Don't get mad at me, get mad at the devils advocate who keeps teaching this to people. What better way for the devil to deceive Christians then to convince them that the one who comes first is Jesus himself? Jesus said "AFTER THE TRIBULATION", did he not? Be not deceived. So you take it up with him.”

 

The response I got back was not gracious.  It’s not just semantics as he suggested below.  It is a belief system that will walk people from one pen of bondage into another by the same adversary.

 

Friend: "MUTE DUDE

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE PRETRIB AND MIDTRIB ......WHIP ......DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING. BELIEVE YOUR UNDERSTANDING .....NOT MIND. ....IM SURE AS YOUR ARE....I KNOW THERE WILL BE A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE SAVED THROUGH THE TRIB. WHEN EVER IT HAPPENS"

 

Then he sent also:

 

Friend: "you just missed my point of protection God had on his judgements. When the whole world is ingulfed in chaos the only protection he can provide is PRETRIB. but hey you can believe what you want."

 

No, I didn’t miss it.  Protection from danger and facing danger in faith are two different things.  The bible is FILLED with afflictions that the prophets had to face down, against their own fears.  We have a bunch of SAINTS under the altar – the altar of offering in Revelation 6:9, “slain for the Word of God” asking when they will be avenged.  And they are told in verse 11 to “wait a season” until the number of them are complete who will die as they have, for the Word of God.    This is when the 5th seal is opened that John saw this, so . . . people who stand for the Word are killed, and tortured.  The apostles were tortured and killed.  Our reward is NOT in this earth. 

 

So I responded to him in what I thought would be the last communication.

 

Response:  " I read the scripture, not the doctrine constructed by my church to funnel interpretation of it. I'm not going to argue with you. Jesus warned us we would suffer, be tested and tried. So you take it up with him. YOU PRAY about it. I have scripture backing what I shared with you. Believe me, I know how hard it is to break out of that conditioning my church taught me. This is why the Holy Ghost teaches us all things. All churches have been infiltrated. Now . . . I'M out of here. The rest is between you and Christ."

 

Instead of it being the last, my “friend” sends this to divert the conversation.  Even though it did not serve his argument on the subject of tribulation; It deserved an answer.  He said:

 

Friend: "Dude , many or I'd say all theologians argue about pre-trib and mid-trib your not alone believe and go your way. Teach about the salvation is about belief in Jesus record and not how good you are to other people. Salvation......not trib."

 

I do not understand where he was going with this and what it had to do with our discussion.  I thought he wanted a new debate.  The seed was planted.  Even if he didn’t agree with it, maybe it would help someone else reading who was on the fence about this subject.  All I did was answer this:

 

Response: " I already do that. If someone is in error are we not to counsel him too? Do we let people walk over the abyss? This discussion alone tells me how necessary this subject is. I will keep preaching what the Spirit convicts me to teach. Salvation is not a laid back, entitlement. We fight for the Word and for the truth every single day. We defend the doctrine of Christ as much as we reveal to people what it actually is. Nobody understands what "Love" of Christ really is until they see it in action. This is what witnesses do."

 

This is what witnesses do.  We are not only called to share the Gospel.  We are called to defend it.  We are called to reprove the works of darkness and not to take part in them.

 

We are called to pull a brother up out of error.  We are called to advocate for the saints and defend the testimony of Jesus Christ AND what he had put out by the prophets in that book we carry to church.  Because twisting of words and laws will, have, and did occur.

 

What believers understand about the tribulation may not be important to some, but it is as important as any other event in the Bible: even more so, because of the warning Jesus gave us about it.  If there was no danger of the deception concerning this event, he would not have warned us about it.  It IS important.

 

The other thing that bothers me about this exchange is toward the end of it: 

 

“Teach about the salvation is about belief in Jesus record and not how good you are to other people. Salvation......not trib…”

 

Belief in Jesus’s record . . . aren’t Jesus’ warnings and counseling and teaching part of his record?  “Salvation not trib”?  What is he afraid of?

 

I got a LOT of friction when we were discussing this in certain Michael Jackson fan groups after his death, when we were on this subject.  It is really unfair to call it friction, some of it was downright hateful.

 

There is an agenda with the adversary, to “fake” Jesus.  It’s in the scripture, and the evidence of this floods the prophecies of Daniel, which Jesus himself warned us to “understand”.

 

We are so close now, that this particular subject is going to be censored almost as heavily as the pandemic topics.

 

Pay attention to some of the Michael Jackson fan groups as well, because as they have so eloquently warned me in the past, this is “ground zero” of their “cause”

 

MJ/TINIEmail

 

 

TINI symbolizes our cause, it's started our cause, it's ground zero.

 

There are not many blogs that covers Michael's murder and conspiracy behind it. A lot of people look up to your blog. You can use your blog to inform....or misinform people.

 

You, lately, have been bordering misinformation. This undermines work done by others."

 

I found the woman who wrote this to me on the IMDB.  I found a couple of others on there too, so they were role-playing assets who started the whole “Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators”, and of course, you can’t have a “resurrection” . . . Without an appearance of a “death”.

 

A “Tribulation” AFTER the appearance of the deceiver would not only fit nicely into their “rapture” plans, it would also dash many hopes of Christians everywhere if they are taught to believe they were “left behind” . . . making them easy pickings for the adversary wearing the lamb’s clothing.